Running An Intuitive Business with Anticapitalist Values with Samara Kasai

Listen to the full podcast with Samara Kasai on The Twelfth House.

Hi, Samara. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today. Can you tell everyone a little bit like I like the term elevator pitch, like your 30 second pitch of who you are and what you do and what you're all about? 

MEET SAMARA

Yeah, I can I can totally Try. So I, I take they/them pronouns. And I have a platform called Kasai Thrive. So my middle name is Kasai and I figured that would be a cute little names, but I am an anti oppression practitioner. 

So I use tools like Tarot and breathwork to help people work through the specific ways that oppression is showing up in their life. 

We met through the internet, thanks to Goddess for the internet. And you taught an amazing Tarot class for the holistic design community in July, I think. And we kind of like we're rallying around the idea of anti-capitalism. And I know we've both been exploring that and running intuitive businesses. So I wanted to just get you on the line to have a conversation about that. 

STARTING AN ANTI-CAPITALIST BUSINESS 

Because I think that when people think of intuitive business, there's often a conflation with like abundance, mindset, abundance versus scarcity, mindset, manifestation, prosperity, all these sort of like buzzwords that we hear, that really are just kind of like hiding wealth and accumulation. 

So how did you justify for yourself? And you know, you've been working through this really publicly on Instagram and via email, how did you justify for yourself wanting to start a business and making money when capitalism is so corrupt and contributes to oppression as an anti oppression? educator? 

Yeah, oh my god. So I started my business honestly, because I hated the ways that I was making money before I had a bunch of jobs that I really didn't like jobs from working at like a fortune five company, like selling my soul and taking their own pronouns and doing all that. 

And also just like playing in the opposite direction being super like ground level, like knocking on people's doors to talk to them about gentrification, and I was unfulfilled on both extremes. And I was kind of in a split where I was like, I need to have money so that I can like function like that is the currency with which we operate.

09:53

And you need you need to have money, unfortunately, right? In some way, right? Like that's the world that we're in at least for the time being. 

And so I was like, how can I have money in a way that doesn't require me to like, give up a part of myself every day or spend 15 hours, getting the door slammed in my face by strangers. So yeah, that's how we got here. That's how I started the business. And I never really started to think about the implications of like, now becoming like, quote, unquote, a CEO with a business until it was happening. 

And until my business started, actually like generating revenue that was sustainable. And one of the things that really helped me was recognizing that like, with my business, at the very least, I interact with human beings on a day to day basis and give them things that they actually need to give them things that are going to enrich their lives. 

And when people exchange money for things that they actually need, it just reinforces that the money that they're getting in their lives is actually going to support them and becoming the person that they incarnated to be rather than, you know, manipulating people into spending money on things that like, isn't going to help them is only going to help grow a corporation and destroy the planet. Mm hmm. 

USING THE TERM “CEO” 

Yeah, I think that that's what gets really confusing for people because it's really hard. I think it's confusing to divorce. The idea that we're used to binaries. Let me backtrack, we're just used to binaries. Like, that's how we live and how we've lived up until this point, I think we're getting closer to the idea that like, oh, maybe everything isn't either or maybe it's not all black or white money isn't good or bad. It's not evil or virtuous. It is all things. 

And it really depends on whose hands it’s. But to your point around being a CEO, do you find I sometimes struggle with using that word, even though I definitely would like identify as a CEO? Because people like Jeff Bezos are CEOs, you know, and they're like, to just like, I would say, like, objectively bad people who are not doing great things for the planet or for other human beings. And do you ever, like, get a little bit of a shudder when you're taking on that moniker? 

Yeah, I think I've only called myself a CEO one time, and it was just now.

12:08

We're trying it out. How did you feel? Feel? 

Yeah, I mean, I think the term CEO for me brings up so much, and I'm really feeling on the line of like leaning into it. And like reclaiming that term is something that like anyone can embody, like, it's not like business owners return CEO, any more than we do. 

But also recognizing that like, that comes with having to identify with the group of people who we are actively trying to work again, you know, so it's kind of when I was in grad school, and realizing like, okay, I do not actually agree with the institution of academia, but I am very much in the institution of academia and like, deciding how to deal with that, you know, right, and recognizing, and it feels like an adjacent conversation to anti oppression work or to the idea of oppression, and that we're existing within a structure and contributing to upholding a structure that we're actively trying to dismantle. Because we exist, right.

Like, and same thing. I mean, in academia. It sounds like your experience, there was similar to mine and tack of, do I really want to contribute as a female founder to what is happening here? Or do I just want to like completely divest from it and create my own system? And you're, you're not working in academia anymore? So it sounds like you're kind of down to divest? Yeah, definitely.

WHAT IS AN ANTI-CAPITALIST BUSINESS?

13:45

When you describe anti capitalism, or I guess, like, how do you think what's your definition of an anti capitalist business? Because those two words might to some people be really contrary? Yes. So I think about anti capitalist business for me, at least, I think about the ways in which my business actually operates like on the ground, because with capitalism, the like, straightest definition of capitalism is just private ownership of the way that things are like produced and bought and sold. I am a person I do own basically everything that happens in my business.

And so my business I wouldn't say as an anti capitalist ended tea because it does exist within capitalism. My business operates on anti capitalist values. And the way that I think about that is I don't feel the need to accumulate and accumulate for the sake of accumulation. I take conscious steps to determine how I'm going to price my offers and I'm consistently adjusting to see how I can meet the people that I'm here to help where they are rather than manipulating them into, like say stretching into a price that is not actually going

15:00

For some time, or manipulating them into like booking sessions or buying offers, when at this point, what they need to do is go journal or go take a walk around the block, like actually seeing people and finding a way to guide them to what I believe they actually need. Rather than trying to funnel them, I guess, into what I would prefer them, do you know, what sounds like you wouldn't even prefer them do that that is true. That's the thing that gets you paid. 

And, like, I love that you made the differentiation between being an anti capitalist business versus holding anti capitalist values, because to your point, we exist within capitalism, that's the structure that we have to play within. 

Otherwise, when we completely divest from capitalism, then we're basically saying, like, I'm not going to operate in this society. And there's a lot of work that we can do, that's really good work by being involved. Like, I don't think we necessarily have the privilege of just tapping out. And like living in an ashram or something and not having money. 

But it sounds like holding anti capitalist values is de-prioritizing, individuation, or the individual, and reprioritizing, the communal, and what's good for all of us, as opposed to what's good for someone's singular bank account. And when that happens, we have regeneration, as opposed to extractive practices, which is what capitalism effectively has turned into now, we feel like in theory, capitalism might work. 

But it's become a machine that operates on accumulation, oppression and extraction, and destroys pretty much everything in its path. Whereas the opposite of that would be how can I think more communally? How can I reinvest, and be regenerative? Can I How can I bring more life or more newness into the world with what I do and who I help? 

INNOVATION AND CREATION AS A BUSINESS PRACTICE

I love that I love the idea of bringing, bringing newness into the world with what I do, because one of my favorite things about having a business is that I'm creating things that like, as far as I know, they don't exist, or they don't exist in a way that's been accessible to me in the past. And so to be able to actively be using my brain to create, the things that really would have served me or that serve people like me, is a way that I bring a lot of newness into the world. 

And I love seeing people do that through businesses. And I have trouble thinking of like, other instances where that becomes such a driving force of like, what you do every day is like you get up and you create stuff that doesn't exist. And you give it to people, you know, yeah, it's like such a baller move, you know, like, we are. 

Our one of our working taglines for this podcast is a space for intuitive innovators, because I really feel that's what business owners and artists are. They're just innovating and creating new things in the world. And that's, like, that's the coolest, that's the super light, amazing version of being an entrepreneur is when you get to make new things and experiment and explore and do it for good and do it to help other people. 

But there's so much that we get caught up in that prevents us sometimes from being able to do that. So for you, how did you overreact and decide that you wanted to start a business? You know, because I think that these are really Jen, you're obviously an incredibly thoughtful, extremely intelligent, highly intuitive person. And you know, all of the like pitfalls of capitalism and entrepreneurship. How are you? Like, no, I can do this.

GETTING THE INSPIRATION TO START YOUR OWN BUSINESS 

18:32

Honestly, I think the biggest thing for me so going back to like, being super unfulfilled when I was doing all the anti gentrification work, and at that time, I was making, like, just enough to cover everything that I needed to live, but not really more than that, like, I was really able to save that much. There was definitely a time I had $7 in my bank account. 

I remember that like, physically, and feeling like, First of all, like, this is not for me, like I cannot sustain my life this way. And I'm not actually able to help anyone by being in this situation where I have $7 like, I can't even barely help myself. And I knew that I like wanted to be a person who had a bigger impact on the world than like, did I knock on this person's door and did they answer me today you know, so it just really was like a lot about my personality. I am a double Leo I was like I do not have enough of the spotlight right now.

19:33

Like put me on a stage dammit, basically.

19:38

So I was really just like I don't want to climb through the whole nonprofit world which is a whole nother like, Bs that's another

19:49

Okay, I'm gonna pick which kind of like racket I want to be a part of, and at least in this one, I get to have a lot more control.

19:57

Again, like for my personality. I like to be IN control of things. And I have a lot more to say on like, my own message, like what I actually get to show up and say to people when they like raise their hand and listen to me, rather than feeling like everything I'm saying is kind of being filtered through whatever organization I'm with. 

So it just really suited my personality a lot more. 

Yeah, I get that I remember working at my tech job, that was a great job that actually was a in terms of tech companies, a relatively good company that gave back and how to social mission. And just like, I felt so lucky. And I also would go and sit at my desk and be like, I'm wasting my life, like, this is a waste of my life to be sitting here writing lead generation about your digestive tract, like, this is not how this is not what I'm here for. 

Not like, you know, that I'm supposed to be here to change the world in some gigantic way. But that way, certainly wasn't it. And it felt like anything could be better than that. And also, I wasn't, I mean, not that money is the most important thing, but I wasn't even getting paid that well to do that to like, you know, kind of sell my soul or to to be middling. 

SALARY AND MONEY LIMITING BELIEFS IN TECH 

I wonder, like, I don't know about you, but the highest salary I ever made was like $65,000. And I again, I thought I was like rolling in it at that time. And I remember being like, I wonder if I'm ever gonna make, I wonder if I'm ever gonna make more money than this. And I was walking with someone who I had worked with. And they had a very similar job to me. And they, I maybe didn't have as much output as I had. Because that's what we measure in capitalism, I found out that they made like 30 grand more than I did. And that broke my brain. 

That was like, when I realized that money was a, like, a crazy, weird thing that I would have to get to know better. Did you ever have, like, what was your threshold moment where you're like, Oh, I need to figure this shit out. And like, get to know it in a different way than I know what now? 

I had a really similar situation to you, where I was actually living with someone who worked at the same job I had when we were like, in anti gentrification land. And I found out that she was actually making double what I was making, even though we started, like, at the same time, and everything and like, it was just, it was a lot because it was like, our boss knew that we live together, obviously, this probably would have come up. 

And I was like, how did you not talk to us or talk to us? transparently, or like whatever. And it just first, honestly, I went into this whole, like, imposter syndrome of feeling like, Oh, well, like she's older than me, and probably has more experience. And like, I don't really know, if we got offered the same thing. And then she negotiated and like, I don't want to make conclusions, but like, it just feels like for some reason, like she is doing something I'm not doing and like was trying to justify it that way. And this was kind of towards the end of when I was like, I don't think I want to keep getting employed because I was like, I don't want to go and do like mental gymnastics, every time I find out that someone's doing the same thing I'm doing and like getting more money for whatever reason. 

I also when I was at my corporate job, I found out that like my bonus was cut because I was like unprofessional, quote, unquote, which to be sitting here in a T shirt right now. What even is professional though, like, that is such a gatekeeping garbage term that like people will just throw at you to not pay you something right or to not hire you. Like who made those rules?

23:54

So yeah, and I was just like, reflecting on like that experience. And this other experience I had in my corporate job. And I was like, the only way to make this not continue happening is to just figure out like, 

BEING SEEN AND KNOWING YOUR VALUE 

Who are the people that actually value me? How can I communicate that value to them, and then just like, set up the exchange that way without having to go through all of these other avenues? Yeah, that's, like realizing that you actually don't need to convince people of your value. There are people who will refuse to see you and will refuse to see your value. And that's okay, like, it kind of sucks. But you don't have to bargain with those people. 

Like you don't actually have to do business with them. And I think that can become really problematic if you work and live in an industry where people constantly do not see you and do not see your value and it can be really demoralizing. 

And that's why so many entrepreneurs are like, No, I've got a brilliant idea and it doesn't matter if you don't see it, like I see it and and I believe in myself and I'm the best investment investing in myself is the best thing I ever did. It was the scariest thing I ever did. I had like no money, and I gave myself two months to make hostess ism work and it ended up working out

25:00

But when I think that there's some sort of magic that comes when you're like, you know what, I'm going to stop trying to please everyone. And I'm just going to speak to the people who are meant to be her for how did you find people who saw you? 

Honestly, it has been a consistent like, adjustment over time, I think for me being seen as becomes much more nuanced now that I'm like, navigating my gender identity on top of like, wanting to be seen for like, my spiritual gifts and wanting to be seen for my, like, political values and all of that. So it's really just been like, trying to talk a lot explicitly about all of those things in public.

25:41

Stick around, then I assumed that they see me, you know,

25:46

yeah, I get that. I mean, I don't get all of it. But I I can relate to being a multi dimensional person, right, and not wanting to be just one thing, and seen as just one thing, wanting to hold lots of different identities. Like, I want to be spiritual, I want to be intellectual, I want to be fuckin weird. I want to be crass sometimes. And I also can be really polite and pulled together and quote, unquote, professional. And I want all those things to coexist in this body and beyond. And hopefully people can, can like, you know, five out of six of those qualities in me and be cool with it and see those things. Yeah.

 And I think for me, because I do a lot of one on one work, it just becomes like more challenging for me to be on zoom with people who I don't feel see me. And feeling like I'm doing this like, either, because these are the people that are willing to pay me. And so I should be grateful. And like having those conversations with myself and having to like continue recapitalizing my mind. And like, realizing that I don't have to abandon parts of myself in exchange for money, even within my own business. Yeah. 

PROBLEMATIC LANGUAGE IN MANIFESTATION AROUND WEALTH AND VALUE 

And I think that, that message of you don't have to abandon yourself in order to get what you want, and gets a bit like misconstrued in maybe the manifestation space of settling or getting tested with ideas or beliefs or experiences, and being in self worth. 

And I think that obviously, knowing your worth is really, really important, kind of like what we've been talking about here. But I think that there's like this actually, really dangerous sort of cycle of beliefs that if you are able to get wealth, then you're spiritually superior, because you've quote unquote, figured out how to manifest it. And that can be really, really dangerous, not a I mean, what do you think about that there are a lot of spiritual leaders who are making like beaucoup cash. 

And I think maybe you're like using that, as street crowd for how powerful they are, like, does that how does that strike you? Is it like, kind of makes me feel a bit weird in my stomach? 

Yeah, I think it's really dangerous. I was having a conversation with someone about this the other day, and we were basically just talking about how a lot of these leaders, they use their wealth, like you were saying, as evidence for how powerful they are, they have to ignore the fact that capitalism exists in order to like, build that argument. 

They can't build that argument in a social context. And so all it does is erase the existence of racist algorithms erase the existence of the fact that we all have these biases, where if we see people that we identify with we are going to gravitate towards them. And so as I like, talk so much about indie comics and hair, like that's why all tarot cards can't have white people on them. 

Because, right people have these biases, and they're like, evolutionarily found or whatever, but they contribute to the success of white people, that success of people who have the privilege of identifying with the gender binary, or whatever have you and the ability to attract clients is not a manifestation. It's a combination of like you having privilege, and you having a good strategy at that point, unless you're willing to acknowledge like what else might be going on? 

Totally, yeah, totally and like, and then that's not to say, I don't think that there isn't magic and there is an energy that's involved in bringing in the right clients and being making sure that your message is communicated to the right people on the right people see you and hear you. But to blindly invest your or, you know, backup your six quote unquote success with something that you've manifested seems a little bit tone deaf. And that doesn't mean that like, you know, the work that might be done in order to quote unquote manifest isn't helpful. I think doing things like Shadow Work and knowing yourself and working on yourself is all really important because it helps whittle down who you are, and it helps you clearly communicate who you are to the world. So like, cool, we're super big fans of that, but to say

30:00

Say that you're ascended or that you're on another dimension, because you can attract lots of money, quote, unquote, attract lots of money to you is like, I don't think that's right. 

Yeah, I think that the point that the point, your point that it ignores that capitalism exists is really harmful. So how do we like justify that, or, I guess not justify, but like, live with that idea. And also the idea that, like, we need to make money, and we're good at our jobs, we're probably making a significant amount of money. 

And that we can do that while being holding anti capitalist values, like, how do we sort of like, figure out the difference between these two ideas that we're holding in front of us? Okay, I think, as far as though, we need to make money thing and like not, cuz it seems like what I'm seeing is there's like a loop of, I'm using the amount of money I have to justify why people should work with me or why I am totally, like,

31:06

I've got this amazing house in Malibu, and like I make, I have a million dollar mindset. And I am next level. So trust me, I'm your guru, right? 

And so it becomes like, people feeling trapped, like, Okay, well, I can't ever have a successful business, because I don't already have a successful business. And it just creates this like, feedback loop. And of course, you can measure success, however you want to I personally don't really use, like, how much money I've accumulated to measure, like the success of my business. But I know that a lot of people do. 

And I think to your question of like, how do we hold both things out one, for me, the way that I kind of reinforce my own business and my own capabilities is just remembering that my skills do speak for themselves, like what I offer, like, substantially regardless of the amount of money that I have, the changes I provide for people speak for themselves. And that's what allows people to come to me rather than feeling like oh, like, for a long time, I didn't even want to tell people how much money my business was making. And I think that's like, a deeper sense of like wealth shaming, and all of that. But feeling like my business, making a lot of money is not going to be the reason that the clients I want to work with are attracted to me. 

Yes, that's exactly you hit the nail on the head, right? That's a symptom of people working with you, right? It's not the reason people work with you. The evidence that that people should use to work with you. And just as what naturally happens, do you still feel wealth shamed when you talk about how much your business makes? 

So it's funny, because I've never been wealth shamed. Like, no one ever.

32:46

Just in my mind, I well shamed myself, basically. Yeah, it's all just me, I

32:54

get that.

WEALTH SHAME 

32:57

So do you still struggle with that? Is that something that you're working through right now?

I think that was probably the chapter I just closed. And it's really come a lot from like, my deepening my connection with my ancestors and trying to like put the whole trajectory of how wealth and exchange and all of that looks like for my family, and realizing there is a lot to be rectified as far as like generations of free labor that my ancestors did to like, create, and uphold this country that is now oppressing us all here. 

And just realizing that like, and of course, I know that this is not helpful for everyone, it's really only helpful for you if your ancestors were enslaved, for me, at least aspiring to have enough to create the life and contribute to the world that I want to see. That doesn't hurt anyone. And it actually really helps redeem a lot of what happened to my ancestors. And so that's how I've been like, I guess the thing that's really beautiful. I think that often I noticed for myself, I'll speak from the eye, that it's really, it's really challenging. 

For me, the last step, usually when I'm working through something is figuring out how I why like, I am just worthy of it. And something that I often do is think about how I can help other people and how, like what I my actions can serve others. And that sort of like gives me the bravery or like the gas the fuel in my tank to like, go just because like I'm a slow learner, like, it's hard for me to change and it's like hard for me to wrap my head around that like, I deserve to be taken care of and resourced. 

And sometimes it's I need to find an excuse or like maybe codependent perspective of like, well, if I make X amount of dollars, then I can hire X number of people and I can pay for their health care and I can give them I can pay them really well. And I can have them work from home and I can support their families and like that's really cool. So that can

35:00

sort of be my thing that I put on a post it note on my wall and work towards, while I'm also working through why it's just okay if I want to do that myself. And yeah, it just reminds me that like this journey is not straightforward.

35:18

And I think we do live in a world that tells us but like, we are not supposed to want things just because we want them like there has to be, at least for like more justice oriented people like the whole martyr complex of feeling like everything you have has to be in contribution to a community or to something outside of like to see personally. 

So I'm also just like, every day, looking for the martyr complex within myself and trying to like, see that in one way or another. That is so smart. Yeah, that archetype comes up that and the caregiver archetypes are so common, especially in the well being and wellness world, where, because that's what we're here to do, right? We're like here to help other people and heal other people and, or help them heal themselves. And so it's really easy to take that on and live there of like, well, I'm just here to help other people. So like, why do I need anything, when in reality, you set it at the very top, like, we need to be resourced to take care of ourselves. 

Because if I only have $7, to my name, how can I think beyond Well, how am I gonna pay my rent? Or how am I gonna afford to make dinner tonight? We can't fully embody that creative, innovative, exciting, intuitive place, because we're just trying to survive. And that can be really limiting. Mm hmm. Oh, okay. 

THE PROBLEM WITH SMART GOALS

This will be our last thing. What's your favorite unpopular opinion that you've got right now? It can be on anything, but like that. You're just like, oh, let me let me tell you what's up for me.

36:52

Honestly, my unpopular opinion, is about goal setting. And I will, I will walk it around, I promise, it will all make sense.

37:04

But I think in the world of at least having a business or healing or anything we kind of look outside of ourselves for like, what are the milestones I'm supposed to be reaching for? Like, when can I call myself successful or call myself good enough for when will I know that I've healed this thing. And I recently went through an exercise of looking back at the goals I set at the end of 2019. Just to like, reinvigorate myself for like this last home stretch in 2020. And all the goals I set were like, how I want to feel in my relationship, how I want to feel in my relationship with money, and all of these things. They're not, you know, smart goals. They're not like measurable whatever. I don't even specific, measurable. I don't know. 

I also have an aversion to SMART goals. So you are preaching to the choir, my friend. 

Yeah. And it was really just like, I can look back and say, like, I know how I felt, then I know how I feel now. And I can see myself, you know, evolving. And it doesn't have to be like, unless I've done exactly what that other person said I should do, then I'm not, you know, working hard enough, or I'm not ambitious enough. 

And when we live in this world of like, you know, glorifying ambition and drive and like high achievement, sometimes it's nice to just think about, like, how do I want to be feeling next year. 

You know, totally, you're making me remember that my goal for this year around money was to feel like I was resting on top of clouds. That was like, how I described it to my partner. And he was like,

38:40

like, you know, I want it to be like comfy cozy. I want to be supported, but not like overbearing, I don't want it to be like all too too much. I want it to just be like, sort of amorphous and just I know that there's something underneath me catching me. And I feel like I feel like thanks for thanks for bringing that up. Because it made me reflect back on that. I'm like, I think I did it. I think I did it. Cool. That's great. As

39:06

long as you can see your vows, Michelle, that's all.

39:10

That's like the most piscean thing ever.

SCREENSHOTTED

39:16

Before we go, we do one final segment where we ask our guest or expert, which is obviously you our expert, guest genius, Dream person, what they're screenshotting for the week, so like what you're saving what you saved to either your like, your list of things that you want to try, or what you're obsessed with, or what you're taking a screenshot of and sending to all your friends and you're like, Oh my god, you have to try this thing. I know I'm putting you on the spot.

39:43

So I recently have been sharing this is like so unrelated to everything we talked about, but I recently saw this meme going around about COVID. And just like feeling like all of the hand sanitizer everywhere is making the whole world smell like underage drinking.

40:05

Ever clear for everyone?

40:08

And so I've been sending that to like everyone I know.

40:13

Don't try under age drinking, though. That's not what, that's not the takeaway here.

40:19

Yeah, that's not the hot take the hot take is

40:25

where you

40:27

were here Damn man, stay inside door be outside, if you're gonna see people and take care of each other prioritize community, I think that is another excellent example of what happens when we prioritize the individual versus the community, and how anti capitalist values could be really helpful to us as a society right now. 

So you don't need to like drain your bank account and dis own business in general, and move to the woods. You can just take small steps and reframe your thinking around the actions that you take in your business. How can these contribute more to the collective? How can what I do actually be useful and generative to other people as opposed to extractive? And are my practices accumulating just more for me? Or am I doing something beyond hoarding?

41:30

There we go. Exactly. Cool. Samara. This was so lovely. It was so great to get to talk to you about these ideas. I feel like we should just put on the calendar in six months that we talk again about this, because I know like we'll probably both have a lot of new thoughts and ideas. Oh, yeah, I'm sure. And hopefully, like, six months from now. COVID will be like, different.

41:57

I think that will just do a lot for the way everyone thinks about money and like, people having to go back to offices and so yeah, I love it. Yeah. upvoting both of those things, please. Samara, how can people find you on the internet and beyond? Well, I have a website called Kasai Thrive. And I'm sure Michelle, you're gonna like spell that for people. You got it. It'll be in the show notes, my friends. Amazing. And then Instagram is the same size drive. And that's all I do. There we go.

42:30

Awesome. Well, it was so great to talk to you. Thanks for sitting with us. And thanks, everyone, for listening. We'll see you on the internet.