Episode 7: Fundraising, Branding Yourself, and The Work of Entrepreneurship with Sinikiwe Dhliwayo
If you’re thinking about starting your own business, curious about where to source the right funds, and want to hear the ins and outs of being an entrepreneur, this episode is for you! Michelle talks with founder and dear friend of Naaya Wellness, Sinikiwe Dhliwayo (@sinikiwe.stephanie) is the founder of Naaya Wellness, which exists to redefine the narrative of Wellness into one that centers BIPOC folks. Naaya aims to create a space where BIPOC people can luxuriate in the beauty that is intrinsic to our beings and to root you in your well-being by making you feel seen and—most importantly—heard.
Check out the show notes for the episode HERE (link)
You can't decolonize wellness because wellness, especially in the West is centered on white supremacy. This idea that in order to be, well, you have to be white, affluent, and able-bodied, so you can't decolonize that thought. You can make it so that you're not centering whiteness.— Sinikiwe Dhliwayo
Sinikiwe Dhliwayo (@sinikiwe.stephanie) is the founder of Naaya Wellness, which exists to redefine the narrative of Wellness into one that centers BIPOC folks. Naaya aims to create a space where BIPOC people can luxuriate in the beauty that is intrinsic to our beings and to root you in your well-being by making you feel seen and—most importantly—heard.
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Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Anchor, Breaker, Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts, and RadioPublic
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Want to hear another episode about how to build a community from scratch? Check out Intuitively Growing Your Audience and Community: What I Would Do If I Was Starting From Scratch, where Michelle reflects on all the things she’d do over if she was building Holisticism’s community from scratch. From growing the newsletter to building relationships with Superfans, and allowing her intuition to pave the next steps, this episode focuses on what it takes to build a stellar community of your dreams, and have fun while doing it!
SHOW NOTES
Defining High Growth Companies, Venture Capitalist funding, Angel investors, Bootstrapping your business, Underestimated Founders [2:07]
Running a business as an influencer vs. divesting from being the face of the brand [24:25]
The different approaches to funding, and two different founder personality types [32:08]
Michelle & Sinikiwe's decisions to take fundraising money or not, Underserved Founders, VC, and anchoring in the why of your fundraising efforts [37:01]
How to discern between crazy ideas vs. genius ideas and how to take action on them [42:59]
How to raise/create funds for your business if you want to start one but don't know where to start [48:41]
Why not everyone needs to start a business, and that's totally OK [49:48]
The day-to-day grind of a start-up entrepreneur [51:18]
The hustler archetype in your business - What is your price? [53:11]
PEOPLE AND RESOURCES MENTIONED
TRANSCRIPT
10:01
I'm here with Sinikiwe Dhliwayo, my dear friend, my Scorpio Angel queen. And I am so so excited that she is gracing us on the 12th house podcast. Sinikiwe. Welcome.
10:17
Thank you, Michelle. I'm so excited to be on the 12th house. I mean, I love podcasts, but I also just love your brains. So like I'm just stoked to thank you for asking me.
10:29
I love your brain back. Our text threads slash IG messages are like a rapid fire shape talking slash business ideas like all day, and then we both are water signs. So then there's like a healthy dose of hot fee-fees is just like feeling a lot of feelings.
10:52
I love our feelings.
10:55
I buried the lede. Sinikiweis the founder of Naaya and Sinikiwe, what's your sort of like, elevator pitch for lack of a better term, about Naaya and your role there.
11:05
So what I like to tell people is that Naaya is rooting black, indigenous and people of color and their well being with the idea that as black indigenous and people of color, what it looks like for us to be well is very different than what it looks like for white people to be well, especially given now that we are in this moment of a real reckoning with all of the police brutality that is happening to black people. In June, as we saw lots of white folks really reckoning with the fact that they are racist, and complicit in systems that uphold white supremacy and racism.
So given all of that context, what it really takes for us to be well just looks a lot different. And also, considering that practices like yoga and meditation, which I have a real affinity for are practices that come from lineages that have roots in Indian culture, and also African culture. And yet, in the West, where I live, because I reside in the North America, they have been commoditized, to the point where you don't even see people of color teaching these practices, not that we don't exist, and that we don't teach them, it's just that the mainstream really tells you that in order to be well, that you have to be affluent, white and generally have able bodied or skinny body, right. So that's kind of the big summation.
But then, as a person, I mean, I am someone that just loves to, visually, I spent 10 years working in the media industry. And I, you know, part of why I started it was also visually to change what it looks like to be well, and to include different body types, different skin, racial identity, so to speak. And then yeah, I think I just would say that I'm someone with lots of ideas, and trying to figure out how those ideas can be in service of people that look like me.
13:08
Yeah. And like, you do all of that. And like 1000 other things, you're one of the most creative and just like multi talented people I think I've ever met. And I've ever gotten the pleasure of meeting for sure. And like, I feel so lucky to call you a friend and someone who I just admire everything that you do, like from the way that you think about how the lettering on a sweatshirt should look to how you think about the experience that someone's going to have on a virtual retreat that you hold, You're so thoughtful, even like you're one of those really thoughtful people that will like send flowers to someone when they're having a bad day where I feel like that's just not what people do these days. And you just go above and beyond and every single thing that you do.
And I just want to say I see you and it's so impressive, but something that I love about you is that you are obsessed with this FedEx and like, the fonts and the colors, and like how the layout looks on a page. Let's talk a little bit about that. Because we send fonts like back and forth to each other like freaking obsessed people like where did that come from?
14:18
So in what when was it I would say like, middle school ish, so it's weird because my dad is a scientist, but I have no affinity for math or science. Like, I'm not I'm not I'm not. I'm not a COVID denier COVID is real science is real.
But in terms of like, what my brain has capacity for like, I was never good at algebra or chemistry or whatever. Like my brain just doesn't have a capacity for that type of learning but anything creative so like whole Mac like sewing and shit. Like I love that shit. So yeah, probably around like middle school, I would say is When I got really interested in photography, and then in high school, I was on the yearbook team. And I actually was speaking of fonts, I actually initially wanted to become a graphic designer, but my high school art teacher wasn't the most supportive, and she basically was like, You can't draw.
So like, I wouldn't recommend that you, like, you know, in college, you have to, especially aren't going to art school, you have to create a portfolio. And so she was like, I don't think you're going to be successful, because you can't draw trying to go for graphic design. So like, I would steer you away from that. And I was like, one gutted because I was in high school. So I, you know, I always had loved photography, and I was on the yearbook staff for four years in high school. And so my original plan was to go into like a photography program, and then transfer out like a year into it, like, take the classes that I would deem to transfer into graphic design, and then transfer out of photography. And it actually didn't end up working out that way.
Like I just stuck with the photography program that I was in, I went to Rei t, which is a giant nerd school. And then I also intandem, like, studied marketing as well, just partially, I mean, honestly, to like, appease my parents, so they didn't feel like I was wasting my degree, I get that. But also like, yeah, I think it's been interesting to just having spent so long working in magazines, right.
So even though my role working in magazines was largely like looking at photography, and how photography was telling the story, I was also working with graphic designers and seeing how they were laying things out and like putting things on the page in order to really tell like a complete story through the pages of a magazine, and then later on, like, digitally, like on a screen. So I think it's always really been of interest to me. And I think in this time or in this like six, whatever, eight months, however long was quarantine has been,
17:07
like 100 years, years long.
17:11
I have just gotten. Yeah, I think I've also just kind of gotten rid of some of that fear that existed before, right? That told me like a year, not a trained graphic designer. So this is something that you should be doing. Whereas now I kind of view it as like, even though I'm not a trained graphic designer, like I know enough, that I can kind of make things work to how I want them to be. And also really just working with designers that I trust, and then working with them together to kind of execute on the final vision. Yeah, I think a lot of it just is fear, right of telling myself like, this isn't something that you're trained in. So like you can't do it.
But the more that I spend time with looking at fonts, or looking at design via social media, or websites and things like that, I think it just kind of gives me more confidence as well to kind of add into the skills that I already have as a visual storyteller, like through photography and through video. Yeah, good answer.
18:18
Great answer. That was great. I'm always like, I can't wait to see what font sneakier he sends me next, or like, what design she's working on right now. I love it. It's so fun. And I feel like that's like, the really fun part of having Well, that's the part that I love of like having my own business is that, like, I get to make those really fun decisions around how it feels. Because that's really what design is, to me. It's like evoking a feeling that I can always Express like through the words that I use, or however else I'm trying to communicate.
18:46
Yeah. And I mean, I think now more than ever, right? It's like we're less and less with each other in person. So I think the first kind of entry point into a lot of projects that people have, especially in a virtual space is like how do I feel by looking at this imagery? How do I feel by like looking at this design?
And even if they might not be able to articulate it, they can sense it, right. You know, like, when you see something on your social media feed that's like very brightly colored. You're like, Oh, I should like look at this. Right. You have that feeling? Right. So yeah, I think figuring out now especially how to express myself and Naaya or whatever I'm working on a language that is visual and graphic, I think has become more important. And it's so funny because I was just my personal. It's so interesting. Like my personal website is like real sad. Like me.
19:48
I don't even have a personal website. That's
19:50
the meat, the meat. The meat is there, like the meat is there. The guts are there you can see what I'm creating. You could see like what I'm about but like it terms of like the package like it's not cute. So I finally, like, reached out to this woman that I do a lot of work with. She does a lot of web design for me her name is reading and she's amazing.
And I reached out and I was like, Okay, it's time, the personal website like I need, I need a digital makeover. Cuz like, again, it's like, it just doesn't really like you look at everything else. And Naaya especially right? And then you like, go to my personal website. It's like, what happened? What happened? Like,
20:33
it's kind of like, at a certain point, you're like, I should just have like a times new roman link in the middle of the page. It's like my work, you know, like, just like, the most simple because all of my energy is in my business website. Like I almost even shouldn't try. It should be like one or the other. Right? That's
20:50
that. I mean, but I am excited. She came back she sent me like some designs and stuff like that. And it is real cute. And I'm like, Oh, shit, like, Okay. I mean, I don't know, I can't wait to see I'm not gonna lie. Like, I don't know how often I'm gonna update it. But like, it'll,
21:10
it'll be a really cute parking space on the internet. That's, that's fine. Yeah. Is it hard to like, discern because I know so much of like, nio style is also you're like, Oh, I just love that. Like, is it hard to make your own brand, like separate from Nigeria? Because Nigeria is so your taste?
21:27
Yeah, that's been like another interesting thing. And it's funny, like we a little bit were talking before about man repeller. And like, I think, for me personally, rip rip the thought around like, you as a person, and like, what you're injecting into your company or your brand, right? And so speaking specifically to man repeller, right, like, man, repeller was built on the founder, the Anders personality, right? Like it was her it didn't really exist outside of her, despite trying to like, separate, right? And so for me, especially with Naaya, it's always been like, even in early days, I was like, Okay, this isn't about me, though, right?
And so even the growth of like, I am someone who definitely like meditation, yoga, yes, those things work for me. But even realizing like, okay, those things don't necessarily work for everyone. So having like, a well being company, right? Like, it can't just be what works for my well being, because what works for my well being doesn't work for everyone else's. So even having that awareness to be like, oh, like this actually, like, yes, my teeth obviously informs like the visual identity and all the things with Naaya. And also, like, I am serving other people, like, this isn't just about me. So like, I have to also go beyond that. And then this idea of like, having like, a personal brand, and like whatever. And like, I think even with my personal website, like I was very, not hesitant, but even to kind of redo it in a way that like, is a separate kind of identity, right?
And saying, like, this is me anyway, because at the end of the day, like I'm a human being, like, I'm not a brand. So even in that, it was like, okay, like I visually like I know, this needs to look different so that folks can get a taste of what I'm capable of. Right? Because as it is now like, like, you can tell that I'm good at what I do. But it's also just like, with this is not cute girl like that kind of grappling with the fact that like, I'm not trying to be a brand like I at the end of the day, I'm not
23:47
like curating your life. You're showing what is up for you. You're not like caring if it's in the right color scheme to like, live in your feed, which, yeah, I'm of two minds about it. I mean, like, should we just like go after this idea? Should we just like, knives out? Okay, so we're going to talk about fundraising and funding and businesses Sinikiwe and I both have bootstrap businesses. And we've both been through the fundraise process, and like our business does still exist. But we'll talk about that later. But one big element of like fundraising right now is founders having their own personal brand, and like investing heavily in like being a brand and an I like, a personality basically an influencer in like running a business. And I think that that's absolutely insane. Like, I think that is sociopathic on some level. Like,
24:47
I don't really, I personally think it's like kind of bullshit, right? Because it's like, is like, here and here's what I always like, and I always am having this conversation with my friend Penda who a shout out to penda as well,
25:03
Penda! Penda is the best, Penda and I went to college together
25:06
but her and I always have this conversation like I personally like yes I love a cute fit like don't get me wrong like I love skincare like all of this shit is
25:17
like oh and by the way your cheekbones look amazing like your cheekbones could cut glass right now they're like popping and sneaker I also has the best skincare racks just like FYI. She got me on to supergroup the Yes, the SPF up. She's an influencer.
25:33
But like, and also, like I would say those are facets of my like personality and things that I love. Right? But yeah, that is not my message, right? My message is around like social justice and anti racism, anti blackness, like that is my message. Right? So those are two very different buckets. And I think that in the world that we kind of exist within in this moment. Like, just I don't want to be posting cute photos of like outfits on my page. Like if I'm posting a photo, it's because the caption or whatever, there's a deeper message or like even to the point where I did this paid sponsorship, which I had so many feelings about around voting, right? And for me, I'm like, okay, yes. As like a civically engaged person. I think it is very key to vote, of course. And also are the candidates that we have now. Are they a choice, man?
26:34
No, right. But it's like, we didn't opt into a two party system. By the way, this is like not my choice,
26:40
but also something that we need to do. Right. So it's like, that nuanced conversation that I feel like doesn't often exists in the box of Instagram or social media, right? And so for me, it's like, I don't take for granted. Michelle, you are beautiful, I am beautiful, whatever, right? But at the end of the day, what I look like has nothing to do with what I'm trying to accomplish and the folks that I'm trying to be in service of.
27:07
Right and so I think 100 Opie,
27:10
I think that like idea of like influencer, or whatever puts you just into that mold of being like, I'm cute girl, I post cute outfits. I like talk about skincare, which there's nothing wrong if that is what you do. And that is your Avenue. But for me, like, that's not my jam. And like, I'll speak to the fact that like I spent 10 years right effectively being behind the scenes as a producer and like not being in front of the camera, all of this stuff, right? And then suddenly have to get out of that in order to build Niah and the way that I want to build it, right people want to see like, who is behind the brand, who all of that shit. And it's like, for me, like, initially, like, my instrument was private. Like, I was like, I don't, I don't need anyone, like,
28:00
I don't want you snooping.
28:03
And then I was like, Oh shit, like people, like want to know who I am. They like that is important, like building this company. So I guess I need to have it be more open and available to folks right. But it is like it is that dance of like, I am not a commodity, right? Like I think when you label yourself so often as like an influencer or brand, you are essentially saying that you can be bought and sold. And I am not something that can be bought.
28:32
Whoa, tweet that you guys that is what that is, right? That's it? Truth, right? I
28:38
am not a commodity to be bought and sold. And I think especially in this moment as a black woman and just realizing in June when my inbox was flooded by all of these brands who were like, We want to work with you and like be in relationship however performative. It was. Like that's what people were seeing. They were seeing me as a commodity that to be like, Oh, we can reach out to a Sinikiwe we can pay her like throw her some crumbs in terms of like, a small fee. And then because we're now it looks like we're in relationship is raising our profile. And that's just like, not how I operate. I'm just like, no, like, I'm, I'm a full,
29:19
you don't you're like you go full Scorpio, you're like no, that I don't know, I do not have time for that. I love that about you, by the way.
29:27
It's just, I think and also just to bring it to another point. It's just like, I think so often when people say like Black Lives Matter, and they're like, the rally cry for that, that we've seen. It really takes out of the equation that like I am black and I am also human. So that means that sometimes like I'm going to be sad, and I am going to be angry because of all of the bullshit and injustice that I face in my day to day life. And also like I'm going to be joyous and like that is something that I've really seen online where there's that cognitive dissonance when I am sharing things and I am educating people. People are very engaged and like they're all about it. But then as soon as I step away from that to share, like a dumb like dance video or whatever, and y'all I'm not doing like Tick Tock challenges. I'm literally just like,
30:22
No, you share the most beautiful, beautiful dance videos. But yes, and you dancing as adorable. But yeah, sharing black joy. And people like unfollow. Yeah,
30:34
it's literally people just unfollow me whenever I share anything. I'm just like, wait, what the fuck? What an actual, like, y'all,
30:44
it's so fucked up. It's, it's wild. Okay, you just brought up so many good points. I'm like, I'm we have to have 100 podcast episodes, because I want to talk about too much.
But one thing is like, with creating a brand, right around anything, whether it's a person or a movement, like, effectively, it gets watered down to like three things, right? where you're like, I'm known for these three things. And like, this is what I am, whether it's like skincare, being a mom and like being a girl boss, or like something else, right? We can all think of like maybe movements or brands that we know where you can define it in three or three or last terms. And it takes out all this like beautiful multidimensionality of like, what brings people to live in five D. And it's just like this hologram version of who we really are on the internet. And like, That's a shame. And that's kind of what you have to do to become a brand.
And like we're, I don't know, I think both of us like we're so much I'm interested in so much more than just well being I'm interested in like a jillion different things that I that don't make sense together all the time. They're not like a cute cohesive brand. And so how could I possibly share of myself vulnerably if that's like what we want to do on the internet, or just share myself fully and be quote, unquote, branded, you know. Also, I feel like there maybe are like two different types of founder personalities. And I feel like you and I are similar in this way of like, we want to be behind the scenes, because we have this idea.
We wanted to start a company, because we didn't want to be influencers, right? Or like no and like not that there's anything more virtuous than that than something else. But when you start a business, it's like, often, what happens is like you're behind the scenes, and you're just doing the work. And it's going to create change in that way, like the business goes beyond you or the company or building has a greater impact than you personally do. And that's okay. Versus I think there are a lot of people that are creating things, or founding things that really do want to be at the center of them. And there's nothing wrong with that. But they're really different approaches to running a business. And I think that this kind of ties in with funding, what do you think?
32:59
Yeah, I mean, I think it's really about getting clear, right on, like, what is the purpose? Or what is the intention of what you're building? And like, for me, as someone who is like, to Gen Z hashtag Gen Z forever, like, a lot of
33:18
where Gen Z stands over here on the ground of Gen Z,
33:22
right? And so I am literally constantly being like, how is the work? And what I am building? How is that in service of the folks that are coming up behind me? Right? How do I bring them up? And like, Yes, I have an audience of work, where a lot of what I do is for grown folks, as I like to call it right. And also my passion is working with young people.
Right? So it's like, how do I work with adults or people who maybe have money and resources that are different from young people, and also utilize that to then in turn, like, help young people, right? And neither of those things actually has to do with me, right? Like, even the way that I view like how I teach, right? It's like I am not out here claiming that I am like a healer, or any of that which I personally think is just a very false narrative like me teaching you yoga or me teaching you meditation might be a catalyst, right for you to get to healing that you need to do as a person, right? But I am not Sinikiwe and I'm not physically like this meditation is going to heal you. Right,
34:39
right. You're leading people to become their own healer. Like you're empowering them to be their own healer,
34:45
right. And that's very two different things, right, especially in wellness. There are people that claim themselves to be healers, and I am not the one like that's just not me. Again, it's fine if that's you And like that is how you feel. But at the end of the day, like I don't, there's nothing and I'll give like a personal anecdote, like there was a time before I went to therapy where I was just like reading all these self help books, and I really just felt like I could just like, self help my way into like, whatever that next level, read the same person. I think so. And then it got to the point where I was just like, oh, shit, like, actually professional help. I can just like,
35:31
like, someone, please help me.
35:34
And they think that that's where, I don't know, I just like really feel that there's like, a lot of disconnect there. Like, I don't think that even going to a therapist, right? Like, I think a therapist gives you tools for you to do the work on yourself, right? They're guiding you Yes, in a specific way, so that you can get to that inner healing or whatever your need. But they're also not just like waving a magic wand and being like, okay, you're healed now. Right? So I think, I think it is very important to kind of just get clear on that. It's like, Okay, do you want to be like front and center? Is that what you want out of the built business you're building, that's great, then maybe you should have a podcast, or maybe you should, you know, seek opportunities that are really going to put you in the spotlight, right. And that's a totally different business than trying to like be in service to other people, so that they can seek out whatever healing or well being that they're looking for. Right? Those are like, two very different buckets of things. And I think it's just so different. Like when you get into something, it's like figuring out which one of those buckets you're trying to fall into. Right?
36:49
Totally, totally unlike it's not like one's better than the other. There are different pathways to different potential outcomes. And like, I feel like this is such a good segue into fundraising. Because when we met, we both I can't remember if I was still fundraising, I think I actually wasn't, I decided that I didn't want to anymore, and I bootstrapped mysticism. But we started talking about like the fundraising journey.
And like I've seen both of us our perspectives have shifted so much in the last few years around starting a business and getting the money to do so. And before we talked for, like an hour before this, we were just talking about the proliferation of crowdfunding campaigns, or how many maybe brand new founders are going out to raise money from investors, and it's way more complex. And there's a lot more to it than I think, like people realize getting into it.
37:45
Yeah, I mean, I think for me, the biggest thing is like, especially in this moment, right, and I hate to like, say it like this, but like, in a lot of ways, like, what happened in June, and with protesting, and all this stuff, black people in a way of kind of become this, like trend, right, which in many ways is like very, very fucked up. But when you look at it from the perspective of these largely white founded venture capital funds, and all of this now being like, Oh, we actually, you know, and to take it back one step, like, there's a term that is blanket that's underserved, right, and women fall into this category. black female founders fall into this category, LGBTQ+ folks fall into this category, underserved or underestimated founders is what they call an VC. So it's just like a blanket term that
38:40
encompasses essentially, VC means venture capital for anyone who's not familiar. Sorry, we got we got the lingo
38:47
that covers like anyone who isn't like a white male, right? So there's a blanket term, then you add on top of it, all that is like happening in the world. And suddenly people are like, Oh, we need to like make an effort in quotation to get money to these underserved folks. Right. And again, it's twofold, right?
Because underserved could mean like you're a woman or underserved. I mean, you're a woman and you're black. And you're queer, right? There's like many layers to it. But I think the thing that has come back to me like time and time again is like, one, what are you actually raising money for? Right? Because we know that there's no such thing as like, easy money, right? So once you take on money from either VC, or maybe crowdfunding or whatever the platform may be, you are then beholden to someone who is going to be asking you what you are doing with that money. Right? And so I think, at least for me, like part of why I started a business is one because I was just in spaces where I didn't have a voice, right, and I wasn't able to make any type of change that I wanted to make. And so part of me starting a business was to be like, okay, I want to be able to really service people in a way that I think is going to be beneficial to them. And so when you're now you start this business, and you're going out to raise all of this money, and people are gonna be asking you what you're doing with this money, right? Especially if they're giving you a lot,
40:32
especially at VC, like you have to, I think that there's this like, maybe myth, when you first get started that you're just like, Oh, I'm gonna raise money, people are just gonna give me money, because I'm smart. And like, I have good ideas. If you're not a white man, that's not true. Like maybe white men can get away with like being good looking, and being whatever charismatic and having good ideas and just getting a shit ton of money.
But like, you have to go in with a really clear plan. When I was pitching, I had to like, say how I was going to allocate the funds, every single penny of the funds for like for people to even, like, have a meeting with me. It's not like, Oh, I I'll just start a business and someone will give me $100,000. And I'll figure it out. That's not really how it works.
41:16
But also, I think what people also don't realize is like, especially and I'll speak for myself as a black woman, like the levels of fucking scrutiny. So like, I always come back. I always come back to this when Lena Dunham was writing girls, and the pitch that she needed to do for girls, I think she like went in. And it was just like, an idea on a napkin, or something like that, like, just a very rough is insane. idea. And I'm just like, wait, what level of privilege Oh, my God. And I'm just like, I could literally never, as a black woman, like the level of scrutiny of like, what my idea is, how it's making money, how it's going to be a return on investment for an investor to see like the levels of fucking scrutiny as like, out of bucking control.
So what I will say like, if you are someone who is new to starting a business, and you, maybe you have a really great idea, if it's something where you can make it so that you can, the money that you're making is like self generating, right? Like you're creating revenue with your idea at the onset by yourself without taking on initial money. Do that one, too. It? Also I think it I think what people don't realize is like, there's also an evolution of an idea. And even as someone who is, fucking has a plethora of ideas, like, just have an idea doesn't mean it's good, right? And sometimes it is. Oh,
42:54
yeah. Okay, yes. Let's talk about that. We both have too many ideas. And like too many ideas going on in the brains? And how do you like, discern for yourself between a, like a crazy idea that you're just like, Oh, yeah, this is genius. And like an actually good idea that you should follow? Do you have a process because I have a process.
43:18
I mean, I would love to know your process. But I think for me, it has just really been and given this like pandemic time, or just like being, I left magazines in February, because it was no longer a good environment for my mental health. And so it was toxic and abusive,
43:37
so toxic, I'm sad.
43:40
But given that I am no longer beholden to like a nine to five, right, and the typical way, I think a lot of my urgency really came around feeling like okay, well, I only have, like certain times of the day when I can work on Naaya or think about Naaya just from like a capacity standpoint. Whereas now it's like, oh, like, I don't have to necessarily rush into that idea. Right? That like me putting it out a month from now, or me putting it out right now, the only change is that I have more time to actually make it into a stronger idea. Right. And yeah, one very good example of that is this initiative called the check in. So then the check in really started with
44:27
that you're doing it now. Yeah,
44:29
yeah, that I'm doing it nice. So it really started from this idea of thinking about young people, young people who don't have financial access, and also just the setup of schools in New York, New York City Schools are so very segregated, despite New York being quote, unquote, diversity. And so thinking of all of these students who are now suddenly having to learn at home because of the pandemic, and maybe not having tech free resources to do that, right?
45:02
So right like computers, and Wi Fi, and all the things and all
45:06
the things. And so thinking about how I can really help in that way. And so the first solution was to donate computers. So I did that I was able to donate 50 computers, and then building on that being like, okay, and also, they are still, in addition to distance learning, black students, especially are being bombarded on a regular basis with people that look like that, that are dying because of police brutality. So how can I now support them with mental health resources? And so initially, that looks like, you know, offering free yoga and meditation and then access to therapy, but within the setting of like, working with schools and having access to their students, and going that route, and then that progressed into actually thought the schools because there's bureaucracy, and racism that comes along with that. Yeah,
46:04
right. And it takes forever to get through, like, Oh, my God, public schools are a nightmare to try and push policy change through or like the literal worst nightmare. So it was like, okay, it's horrible. So then
46:15
I had to progress from that, because I was like, Okay, this isn't actually going to get folks, the resources,
46:22
not the environment that's viable for the change that you want to
46:25
bet. 100%. So then I had to, you know, pivot, even though that word is so overused, but from that thought, right, so just yeah, I feel like there's so often that there has to be levels and progression to an idea. And because people feel the sense of urgency to like, I have it, and so I have to do it. And trust me, like, I would love to just be like cranking things out at like a rapid pace. But like, sometimes in order to, you know, get the best outcome, you need to give it time, but you can't rush things. And I think that is something that I really want to impress upon folks who are like looking to start a business or have a great idea. It's just like, take your time.
47:14
Yeah, dude, like, let it brew, you know, like, let it percolate and just kind of like, let it age like a fine wine. Because it's, if it's a genuinely, I feel like we're the same because we're both projectors, as well, we have a lot in common you guys, this is why we're friends, are you saying like, I need to say on an idea for a really long time. Because if I just go with like my gut, a lot of the time, that's anxiety talking, that's fear talking, that's ego talking. And when I like get into a place of urgency, that's also like a value of white supremacy, especially in the workplace. And so if I can like luxury, a little bit longer in something, then I feel like it always comes out better.
But I also recognize like that a lot of people are moving fast, because they're like, I don't have money, you know, like, I need to bring this thing into reality, because like, this is my job now. And that and balancing those two things at the same time, right? Like, we don't necessarily have all the time in the world, eventually, we have to ship our product, right? Like, we need to bring our product into the world, or we need to like, we need to publish the book, or we need to like publish the podcast, or we need to like, actually go pitch the idea. And that is I think like, that's a process that you just are fine tuning as you make more things as you are like a business owner or founder,
48:37
totally.
48:41
For anyone who's listening to this, who's thinking about fundraising, and wants to start a business but doesn't know where to start, get a viable business first, like See if you can actually generate money first and try to bootstrap as long as you possibly can. And until you have something that you really are excited about, and that you can you have like data and information to back up your beliefs. Because if you're looking for investors, whether they're VC or angel investors or friends and family, I don't know anyone who's raised a friends and family round, but you know, if that isn't in your purview, data you have must be cool. The more data you have, like, the more likely people are going to they're not gonna be able to say no to you, if you're like this idea works. So give them reason to say yes, I would say that would be my piece of advice.
49:31
I would also say like why, like, why is
49:37
that one that though?
49:39
Why are you starting this business? Because again, it's like not, and I'm just like, say it very frankly, not everyone needs to have a business like Yes, yeah. And I think that is part of also just, I don't know if it's social media or what it is, but there's just this This notion that like, you should just start a business, like, not everyone needs to start a business. And that is totally okay. Like, maybe you need to just find a work environment that is more conducive to you being successful, right, then just starting your own thing, because here's the thing, like, I would say, 75% of what I do is like, not fun. Right? Like, yeah, there's like so much. Like, when I'm up at like midnight, like doing edits on the website, because yes, y'all like I had someone designed the website, but I update it. I don't have someone that does that, for me.
50:42
sends out the emails. Yeah, like, it's,
50:47
I think that is iteration. Like, I think people make entrepreneurship look very glamorous. And like, there are things obviously, that I am very grateful for, that I get to do with being an entrepreneur. And also, there's a lot of shit that I don't like, there's a lot of shit that I don't like, but because I don't have the financial resources to have a team of like five or six people who's doing it, girl is doing it. Like I don't I can't outsource things. Right. So like, I think that is another very important consideration. It's like, Why?
51:24
Why, Andy? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Are you doing it for external validation? Or are you doing it because you can't help but do it? I heard a really good quote from Seth Godin today, where he said, you know, the, the question shouldn't be like, what would you do if you couldn't fail? It should be, what would you still do if you knew you were going to fail? Like, if you knew it wasn't gonna work, and I feel like for both of us, like, I'd still be doing this shit.
Like, if no one was listening, like, I would still want, I would still probably make this if no one was opening my emails, I'd still like love doing it. And and you got to have like, deep love in your heart for it. But actual work, I think, because that's what you got at the end of
52:08
I would say another one is like, there's no such thing as easy money.
52:14
Everything comes with strings, my dude, there's no such thing as free lunch.
52:19
None, right? There is none. And and especially if you are someone who doesn't maintain white identity, right, so why anyone who has a white, right, if especially if you are going into a situation where you're asking someone to write you a check, or even a moderate amount of money, right, even like $10,000 on up know that there's gonna be a lot of strings attached. Yeah, that money. So really asking yourself, like, Am I giving up a piece of myself? Like, am I giving up? Like, some of my values, my own integrity by taking this money? And if I am going to do that, is it worth it?
53:04
Right? And what am I okay, with, like settling for like, or, you know, doling a part of myself for a part of like, what? Yeah, where everyone has a price, right? Like, there's the archetype we all contain an archetype of like the hustler, which basically means like, we can all be bought for a price. Now your price for Naaya might be like 100 million dollars, right? But like, we all have a price. And you got to know like, okay, what's integrity? For me? What's in integrity for me? And what am I willing to like sacrifice in order to be so financially secure from someone else's capital, there also are like all the strings of other people's emotions that you take into consideration when you are dealing with their money. So like, I could never do that. Because I have too many emotions inside my own brain. I can barely deal with my emotions. But you're so right on. And so I mean, Sinikiwe, would you ever raise money? Or are you like bootstrapped all away?
54:06
I'm right. It really depends like it. Really, really.
54:12
I mean, I couldn't be convinced. I really feel
54:15
like there would have to be like, the contracts would have to really be a serious contract there. Right. You know, and again, it's I think, for me, it's that constant like reassessing of like, what am I willing to give up right there, especially if it's a company that is only now realizing that it's important to invest in black business, right? It's like, what amount of dealing with their anti blackness or racism, right? What amount of that am I willing to deal with in order to propel my business forward in the way that I want to, right because also, it's a negotiation right there.
Things that I am unable to do, because I don't have the manpower. Right, and that I can't gain that manpower or bringing on a team, because I want to pay people and I want to pay them what they deserve. And so because of that, I have to do stuff myself. Whereas maybe if I had more financial resources, you know, so it's right, that dance,
55:26
there's always a sacrifice. Where does that phrase like, I feel like I heard it a lot in making content, that you got to pick two, you can either get it fast, cheap, or done beautifully, or like done really well. But you can't have all three, you have to pick two. So you can get it done fast and cheap. And it might not be so good, you can get it done, like fast and beautiful. And it's going to be expensive. But the adage is to the point of like you You are, there's always going to be something that gets pushed off the plate, right? Because there's only room for so many things.
So you're going to have to make, like, hard, you're gonna have to kill your darlings. In some ways. If you're making a choice to like take on investors, or something else, then that means that something's got to go. And the choice that you're making right now, to not take on investors means that you have less freedom in terms of scalability sometimes, because there's just not the capital there to do so. But I feel like we'd probably scared everyone off from raising money. And I would say or starting a business. And I would say that, like that's not the point. You totally should you should start a business if you want to just ask these questions first or don't and like you'll learn the hard way. Maybe we did. But I think it's also really daunting when you first start a business, because you're like, How the fuck did people have money? Like how do people start businesses? Like how do they get money to do anything like, at least that's how I felt. And it's more possible than you think you don't need to have $100,000 or even $50,000 in the bank to get started, you can just start step by step and like, do what's right in front of you and start with the most simple action. And, you know, it doesn't have to happen overnight for you. It can happen over time. And that's sometimes not the best thing start.
57:08
But I also will add to that I think it's that time piece that people don't necessarily want to give things. I think that, you know, we live in an Amazon age of instant gratification. Like, you just decide it and then it happens and it's done. And like, you know, people even look at me and they look what I've built in like two years. And I'm like, yeah, y'all see the two years but you don't see like the 10 where I did is
57:38
gonna say plus 30 like your entire life has been building up to this like all of your training has built up to
57:43
literally all the things all of it. Y'all didn't see the seven unpaid internships I did in New York City. Like you guys don't see those things. And like, I am grateful for all of those things that I went through and those experiences that I had that enabled me to get to the point where I am, but like that shoot was not overnight. There was no there was no instant gratification.
58:08
Overnight glow up my dude's might have looked like it but it was not that
58:14
definitely not that and so that's the other thing that I will add it's just like it's not gonna be some Morrow, my guy
58:22
huh? Whoo. That's a very wise words. Yeah. God, you're so smart. I love your brain so much. Okay, so we have to wrap because over time, but I want to end with your favorite of the moment unpopular opinion because I know that you got you got some some unpopular opinions or hot takes.
58:41
I mean, my favorite hot take is that this idea of decolonizing wellness, you can't decolonize wellness, because wellness, especially in the West is centered on white supremacy, right? And this idea that in order to be well you have to be white affluent and able bodied, right? So you can decolonize that thought you can make it so that you're not centering whiteness, right? If you are someone who inhabits a white body that you are actively addressing your own anti blackness and your own anti racism, but that's not the same thing as decolonizing wellness.
59:22
I love that hot take You're so smart. Everyone hire Sinikiwe to do anything that she wants to do. If you are graced by her presence. You should just be like, how can I hire you? Because she's incredible. This was so fun. I wish we had 100 more hours but sadly we have to wrap Sumi QA How can people find you and Naaya
59:43
I would say find us on the website. Naaya wellness and a wellness con because we're really taking a hiatus from Instagram and also sign up for our name. Sign up for our newsletter cuz That's, that's where it's gonna be at like, the last thing I will say is just, yeah, it's been really interesting to build up this like following in quotation on social media, right and seeing actually, who's really engaging with what's happening. And also, as someone who has worked in media and this idea of like owning your content, right. And so also, I have really taken a step back from just putting out so much free stuff on social media that people can access, because it's also like, it's free to you to access and access and affordability is very important to me. And also, it's coming at a cost for me, as someone who believes in paying people, especially contributors, right, so I might still be paying a contributor, but you are accessing the material for free. So what does that mean, for me as someone who's also trying to make content?
1:01:00
Right, like you get paid to make content? Right. And you should get paid to get make content?
1:01:06
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
1:01:09
There's that there's the algorithm, which again, story for another day, but I feel like was our first bonding experience. And, yeah, God, there's a lot of reasons to potentially divest from Instagram and Mark Zuckerberg, and invest in your own platforms like your email us so. So find Sinikiwe and Naaya and subscribe to their emails, which are beautiful, and so thoughtful. And my favorite. One of my favorite parts of my week is when Sinikiwe jumps into my inbox. But this was so fun. Thank you for doing this with me. I love you so much.
1:01:47
I love you so much. Thank
1:01:48
you going favorite Scorpio, human. And Naaya is so important. And the work that you're doing, we need it to infinity and beyond. So I'm excited for everyone to go follow you and keep tabs on what you're up to. And like you're such a superstar.
1:02:08
I love I love you. Thank you. Thank y'all.
1:02:12
Peace. Bye.
1:02:16
And that's our episode. Thank you so much for tuning in. You're amazing. Thank you for listening to the 12th House for subscribing for rating and reviewing. It means so so so much to us. And it helps us get discovered by other amazing people. So we really appreciate you sharing the love. If you take a screenshot of this episode and tag us on Instagram at mysticism, then I'll send you a little gift. And if you shoot me a text with a screen grab of your review, I will send you something even more special. So lots of hopefully, ethical bribing. When you share the podcast and when you do us a solid and give us a review. We really really appreciate it so excited for next week's episode. If you've ever wondered what it's like to be psychic and run a business well, oh man, I got an episode for you. I am talking to Asia to shore of the spirit guide coach and in spirit house collective here in LA and I it is such a good episode. So make sure you're subscribed to the podcast. So that that episode drops. If you have any questions just shoot me a note michelle@ohholisticism.com and I will talk to you next week.